PC507 Starving in UK, No just a vehicle for Extreme Left & Right politics
Summary of Non debate on BBC Five Live

- 5live Talkshows like Nolan - A good debate has evidence & reason ..emotional shouting is bullying, it wins no converts. I could be shouted at for a year in a Taleban village and still wouldn't be converted. MMR had thousands of members of the public bleating..but they were wrong

- Waste of time cos it wasn't a debate : political groups jumping on a band wagon of people living in a bubble earnestly pleading ..all got in the way of a search for the truth

- Social Worker types just use it to bash the government while Conservatives love it cos the nuttiness of the SWP pushes voters to Conservatives
- The people claiming to be starving either turn out to be much richer than me or having to choose today whether to use the coins in the pocket for the electric meter or food cos they haven't done financial planning the rest of the year.

- Is this the standard of debate on BBC FiveLive ? "debate" = small SIG crowd get to shout their emotional dogma, #BBC fills tick box responsibilities, most people have switched off

Stephen Nolan prog on BBC Five Live : Food Bank Special proving to Edwina Currie people are starving in the UK

- Edwina Currie an out of touch right wing politician was on the radio a few weeks ago, people kept phoning & saying how "people are starving in the UK", She replied "Rubbish, don't phone me on your mobile phone & then tell me you are starving". She's right of course If people were starving in the UK starvation would keep appearing as cause on the death certificate. When people live in a bubble they don't see reality they genuinely believed they are suffering when in fact they are richer than 90% of people in the world, they are richer than 90% of people in the history of the UK.

- So many people called the radio they organised a special debate in Birmingham. A church hall was packed with people were believed that Currie is wrong to assert that "people are starving in the UK. Everyone was furious at Currie & every point was shouted. Currie was on stage with an extreme-left political activist and a leftwing churchman.

- I expected then to line up case by case where they proved people's income was lower than the absolute minimum they need to live on. There was a lot of shouting, there was a lot of first lines, but when it got to the detail no convincing evidence.

One woman was a gift to Daily Mail readers

- One woman insisted that Currie didn't understand her poverty & challenged Currie to visit her house. I expected how Currie was going to have have to show her how to claim a hardship grant cos she was trapped in a real temporary emergency, but it must be easier to find people much nearer the line than her. Unfortunately this woman was living in a deluded bubble.

- When she earned £25K she had a good life now she is on benefits she thinks she has a level entitlement above her income "I am repairing my sons jumper which costs £18", hello you can't manage your finances that's 4 times more than I have ever spent on one. - "I have a car cos I am disabled", yes working disabled have the right to help with a car, but she shouldn't expect the gov to pick up her share cos she stopped working, She pays £40/month for satellite TV, Yes she could get a career job here, but she wants to change industry cos her last boss was aggressive, "I'm not going to accept the first job in job centre just to please the government", ...not when she can live free off the state ..the woman was a gift to Daily Mail readers

Left extremists happy to bash with dogma & help Tories

.. The foodbank woman said there had been a big increase in takeup, but admitted they did no check on claimants to check if they didn't have enough money.

- The extreme-left political activist and a leftwing churchman continually appealed earnestly, but offered no evidence. At the end of the day it is almost impossible for sane people in the UK to starve.. if there is hardship then social services are there to help with a hardship grant. Even if that misfunctioned cos the claimant was violent to Social Services staff or something ..the churches agencies are their to help. The church sits on £billions of assets it's hardly going to turn genuine cases away cos the church roof is a bigger priority. - There were signs there were some people felt guilty about claiming what benefits they are entitlements ..and that might be nearer to the truth. Some people feel they don't have enough money for food yet haven't claimed every help they can get.

- Russian Doll within a Russian Doll ? - I couldn't understand why no one was interested in talking to me about simple life and living on less than €3000/year.. "wow you did it" ..so I have to conclude they aren't interested cos it does suit their political agenda. - They can't say "Tories are bastards they making the poor starve"
- TWEETS got no response : I spent £50 in 3 weeks in Switzerland this year. I'd walked from Rome I spend less £3000/year, are people trapping themselves?
- @StephenNolan unbelievable : people are claiming starvation, but they have loads of stuff they can sell #5live
- #5live The Social services are there to help .. hardship payment is available before starvation, system can be hard, but be tough 10 hours ago

- Anyway it wasn't a debate, people hadn't come to bring solutions & listen to others. Apart from a handful of genuine poor it felt like most people were a Socialist Worker crowd come to chant their cause like a football crowd. It's not about Currie either; "she stuck to her guns" probably knowing that since this time she is right that UK people aren't starving, the left wing look like out of touch bullies so pushing the floating audience towards the Conservative party.. unfortunately they are the ones that gained from the debate. - Currie has got the Socialist worker crowd canvassing for the conservative party

Thought of Starvation Comes from Living in the Moment

- Bloke phoned in last night - "There are days when I have to decide coins for the electric meter or coins for food"
... Now I understand; whereas he thinks he is choosing between heat and starvation, but it is about financial management ..he should have been saving for a rainy day and he didn't, he's not looking at other options like selling something in his house, getting a family loan, applying for a hardship grant ..pity the program didn't get down to the nitty gritty like this.

- No-ones benefit money is spent as soon as they get it . You get your benefit, you immediately put aside for council tax, all special essentials like medicine are free, so the remaining is for food, utilities & replacement of clothes etc. Yes some peoples have past bills from when they were earning more, but in most cases they will have had time to downsize, savings and stuff they can sell. Criminal fines are also taken off benefits before you get them.. but you can renegotiate payments if your kids really don't have enough food.
Our basic needs are need food, charity shop clothes
- We don't need Xmas, Bdays, kids, cars, houses, alcohol, drugs, pets, Sky etc

- I know Social Services do try hard .. but I can imagine some poor kids do suffer cos the financial management support available fails to reach their parents.
- MSE is a great source of advice on Financial management they have a page which checks your benefit entitlements, MSE Budget Planner

- Although increasing benefits might seem like a cure-all ..when people live in the moment it's likely people would still spend it all before the meter runs out of money.

Contrasting shouting on 5 Live with Inspirational Journalism from Sangat TV

The next morning was the Tottenham Riots debate

- felt like the same this time "Black activist" chanters. - It's a pity instead of involving all, these progs please a SIG small crowd, but they are unaware :
1. everyone else has switched off
2. they wouldn't have converted anyone with emotional shouting anyway, rather they push people to the opposing side by appearing like left wing loonies.

- Meanwhile the BBC can fulfill it's tick box pesponsibilities .."Social Worker crowd you've had your say, Black activist crowd you've had your say.

- "debate" on BBC Five Live= a SIG small crowd get to shout their emotional dogma, BBC fills tick box pesponsibilities, most people have switched off

- Just the same as it's not worth my time watching Hollywood films it's not worth my time listening to such shouty debates ..bye BBC FiveLive

contrast shouting on BBCr5 with BBC Inside Out WM

BBCr5 this morning a wasted 2 hours of shouters who complained blame
: Birmingham community makes peace & rebuilds
: Tottenham denies responsibility :complains & blames

Non- mainstrean journalist about the riots :inspiring

- that Upinder Randhawa from Sangat TV, seems like journalist of the year calibre, unusual to see a journalist with morality. In the riots he did exactly the right thing
- I hadn't seen this before.. While all the MSM were tied with being impartial he was on the scene "My God this is terrible", "Keep your kids at home", he reported crying in frustration. The team on seeing a cop trying to chase a looter .."Come mate get in the car we'll help you" . He did exactly the right thing taking a lead instead of standing by.
- People like him really help Birmingham community make peace. Shop keeper already rebuilt his shop and visted by , William & Kate

- IO WM on FB

Not revenge, not thieves, about feeling powerful.
- psychologist analysis video said it wasn't about revenge for police violence , or stealing , it was more about people who feel disempowered, smashing a shop window and feeling powerful.

- There are 4 blogs ... travel and then I eventually edit and filter off material into
Current 507Ideas and Opinions Blog, ideas index 2, Irrational World Blog

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